164. Memorandum of Conversation
SUBJECT
- U.S.-Saudi Relations
PARTICIPANTS
- His Royal Highness, Prince Saud bin Faisal, Minister of State for Foreign Affairs
- H.E. Ali Abdullah Alireza, Minister of State
- Ambassador Ibrahim al Sowayel
- Ambassador Nuri Ibrahim, Director Western Affairs, Ministry of Foreign Affairs
- Mr. Hassan Shawwaf, Secretary to the Minister
- The Secretary
- Joseph J. Sisco, Under Secretary for Political Affairs
- Alfred L. Atherton, Jr., Assistant Secretary (NEA)
- Francois M. Dickman, Director, NEA/ARP
THE SECRETARY: (after a 15 minute tete-à-tete). His Highness was just expressing his views that the U.S. should move further along on the question of the Palestinians. I told him about the difficulties this presented for us and the general direction we were prepared to follow.
PRINCE SAUD: I think it is essential for the Palestinians to come into the picture eventually. It is a most difficult issue but the only way to solve the Middle East problem is to bring the Palestinians into the picture if we stand on the legality of representation. It will do no good to describe the Palestinians as terrorists and the Middle East issue won’t be resolved if their rights are not taken into account. The Arab countries have tackled this issue by accepting the PLO as the only representative of the Palestinian people. Dealing with them (the Palestinians) as an entity will make them more constructive and responsible.
THE SECRETARY: I expressed our general view when I spoke to Crown Prince Fahd and we will pursue that course. We will not change. It is for us a very delicate and complicated problem. We hope you will understand our problem just as we understand your concerns.
In speaking to His Highness about my Cincinnati speech, he mentioned that he had heard that I had referred to an increase in the price of “Arab oil” as having a serious consequence for the world economy. I did not use the word “Arab oil” and I want to give you the text of my speech (Secretary asks for the text).
PRINCE SAUD: This is what I understood that you had said. The reference to “Arab oil prices” has become a very common expression in the U.S. press.
THE SECRETARY: (pointing to the text) Here is what I said, it shows what can happen in the press if they do not quote you correctly. I said “But another oil price rise would severely jeopardize these hopes.”
What about our bilateral relations?
PRINCE SAUD: This morning, with the President, I referred to the publicity given in Congress concerning commission payments and the problem this poses for us. Can anything be done with company documents?
THE SECRETARY: (to Mr. Atherton) Is there anything we can do about this?
MR. ATHERTON: We are trying to work with the committees in Congress by pointing out the adverse political impact if allegations are made regarding foreign officials. I believe it has had some effect but it is limited. We have also been in touch with the companies to point out the foreign policy problem.
PRINCE SAUD: We would like to have whatever information is available so that we could study it and determine if there have been any illegal activities. In fact, we would welcome any information which the U.S. uncovers so that we can take appropriate action.
THE SECRETARY: Our government is not investigating alleged illegalities. We are not aware whether any of the activities reported by the companies before the Congressional committees constitute illegal activities. You would be the best judge of this. There are allegations that have emerged at the hearings but we can’t control these hearings.
What about military supply? (turning to Mr. Atherton) I discussed our military program in detail when I was in Taif. Are there any hold-ups?
MR. ATHERTON: I am not aware of any.
PRINCE SAUD: We have prepared a letter listing the items which require action on your part. We expect to deliver it to you shortly.
THE SECRETARY: (to Mr. Sisco) Is the administrative machinery ready so that we can give attention to these requests?
MR. SISCO: Yes.
THE SECRETARY: We would like to have it so that your Ambassador can call attention to Mr. Sisco or myself when there is bureaucratic confusion over your arms requests. We can generally cut through the red tape.
PRINCE SAUD: All of our military purchases emanate from our discussions in the Joint Commission. We have indicated the type of armaments we seek. But there have been problems of deliveries and this creates difficulties because these purchases are geared to specific phases in our modernization program.
THE SECRETARY: I have talked to the President about sending Secretary Schlesinger to Saudi Arabia on a visit.
PRINCE SAUD: As you know, he has a standing invitation to come at any time. Prince Sultan has expressed great interest in his coming.
THE SECRETARY: I am scheduled to see Secretary Schlesinger tomorrow and I will raise it then.
How long are you staying in the U.S.?
PRINCE SAUD: Until September 30. I give my speech on the 29th.
THE SECRETARY: Is Baroody still there? Isn’t he the dean in the UN?
PRINCE SAUD: Yes, he is a well-known figure in the United Nations. He received one vote this year to be the President of the Assembly as did the representative of Mauritius. Baroody also got a vote last year. Each year he gets at least one vote. He is a very flamboyant person.
THE SECRETARY: That reminds me of the disastrous experience we had when President Nixon was President and he met with the President of Mauritius who had come for the UN. A briefing memorandum had been prepared but for Mauritania, not Mauritius (laughter). President Nixon took pride in not speaking from notes and he would memorize the points in the briefing paper. Once he got started for this meeting, however, there was no way of stopping him (laughter). The President talked about the trend toward re-establishing relations and our welcoming relations with Moslem countries. It was a good briefing paper for Mauritania but the President’s dialogue bore no relation to Mauritius and it was shattering (laughter).
This reminds me of another story. At the time of the oil embargo, I am told Baroody came to the UN riding on a donkey in order not to waste energy (laughter). I know that the Presidency (of the UNGA) is scheduled to go to the Middle East next year and perhaps Baroody will get it.
PRINCE SAUD: I know that Syrian Foreign Minister Khaddam is campaigning hard for this job.
THE SECRETARY: I like Khaddam. I like the Syrians. When they are convinced something must be done, they act.
PRINCE SAUD: The Syrians feel very strongly about getting movement on their front. The Syrians need an assurance that the U.S. will act. They are convinced that a commitment by the U.S. to act is very important.
THE SECRETARY: I can’t complain about the conduct of the Syrians and of President Asad, whom I like very much, and of Foreign Minister Khaddam. Events have moved more slowly for the Syrians than I would have hoped. I have always told them what my views were, so what I said to President Asad, that I would stick by my word, is absolutely true.
PRINCE SAUD: I appreciate this assurance. I want to thank you for your many courtesies.
THE SECRETARY I expect I will be seeing you in New York.
PRINCE SAUD: Yes, I hope so.
