FROM EMBASSY DAMASCUS TO SEC.STATE WASHINGTON
SECRET DAMASCUS 06332
FROM MURPHY FOR S/S – HILL ONLY
REPEAT TO BEIRUT AND TEL AVIV FOR AMBASSADORS ONLY
- 0. 12356: TAGS: PREL, PORG LE SYRIA
SUBJECT: DECL: SECOND MEETING WITH KHADDAM –
FULL ACCOUNT REF: DAMASCUS 6331 (NOD IS) CS
ENTIRE TEXT
DATE 27/09/1984
MURPHY, GLASPIE AND STAFF MET FOR THE SECOND TIME WITH SYRIAN VICE PRESIDENT KHADDAM IN LATE AFTERNOON OF SEPT 27 FOR NEARLY TWO HOURS; WITH KHADDAM WERE DEPUTY FOREIGN MINISTER ALNAIB , AND INTERPRETER, AND A NOTE TAKER. EXCHANGE ON TERRORISTS IN LEBANON REPORTED SEPARATE CHANNEL. REFTEL IS SUMMARY AND COMMENT.
KHADDAM OPENED THE DISCUSSION BRISKLY BY SAYING THERE IS AQUESTION WHICH SYRIA WANTS TO PUT FORWARD CONCERNING UN FORCE IN LEBANON , REFFERING TO MURPHY STATEMENT THAT THE GOL SHOULD ASK FOR A NEW UNIFIL MANDATE. KHADDAM WHAT IS MEAN BY THAT, AND WHAT ARE THE PROPOSED MISSIONS FOR THE FORCE?
HE STATED THAT HE WAS ASKING THIS QUESTION BECAUSE MURPHY HAD SAID THAT UN FORCES WOULD ENTER AREAS VACATED BY THE IDF. SECOND, HE ASKED WHAT THESE FORCES WILL BE CHARGED WITH. ARE THEY T0 BE CHARGED WITH ANY “AUTHORITIES RELATING TO THE LEBANSE STATE?” MURPHY RESPONDED THAT OCT 19 IS THE DATE FOR RENEWAL OF THE EXISTING UNIFIL MANDATE.
T HERE ARE THREE POSSIBILITIES: NO NRENEWAL; A SIMPLE RENEWAL . AS HAS BEEN DONE EVERY SIX MONTHS SINCE 1978; OR A NEW UNDERSTANDING WITH THE UN REGARDING CHANGED TERMS OF REFFERENCE (TOR) FOR UNIFIL. WITH REGARD TO AN EXPANSION OF THE MANDATE AS Distinguished FROM RENEWAL WE DO NOT SEE THIS AS TAKING POWERS AWAY FROM THE GOL . THE GOL MUST AGREE TO ANY TOUR FOR UNIFIL AND ONLY FOR AN INTERIM PERIOD. IT IS NOT FOR THE U. S. OR FOR SYRIA, TO DEFINE THE TOR WHICH ARE APPROPRIATE FOR 1984.
IN ANY CASE THE GOL MUST TAKE THE INITIATIVE, EITHER FOR A SIMPLE RENEWAL, OR AN EXPANSION. THE U.S. RECOMMENDS THE SECOND COURSE BECAUSE THE SITUATION HAS CHANGED SINCE 1978. KHADDAM REJOINED BY AGREEING THAT THIS IS A MATTER FOR THE UN AND GOL TO WORK OUT. HE SAID HIS QUESTION WAS NOT PUT WITH THE INTENTION THAT SYRIA OR THE U.S. SHOULD PLAY A ROLE THAT IS PROPERLY LEBANON’S. MURPHY EMPHASIZED THAT WE WERE TALKING ABOUT URGING THE GOL TO MAKE A MOVE SOON.
MURPHY CONTINUED BY SAYING THAT WITH REGARD TO THE VICE PRESIDENT’S QUESTION ON MISSION OF UN FORCES ENTERING AREAS VACATED BY THE IDF. THIS IS A MATTER TO BE DISCUSSED INITIALLY BETWEEN LEBANON AND THE UN.
KHADDAM THEN PRESENTED SYRIA’S FORMAL RESPONSE TO MURPHY’S PREVIOUS PRESENTATION FURTHER TO WHAT PRESIDENT ASSAD TOLD AMBASSADOR MURPHY
IT FIRST, CONCERNING UNDERTAKINGS REQUESTED FROM SYRIA “TO WHICH SYRIA HAS NOT AGREED , ” SYRIA DOES NOT ACCEPT THESE UNDERTAKINGS BECAUSE THERE IS NOTHlNG TO JUSTIFY THEM.
SECOND SYRIA AGREES TO THE PROPOSAL FROM THE GOL PRESENTED BY PRESIDENT GEMAYEL THAT THE LAF AND UNIFIL SHOULD BE IN THE ZONE VACATED BY THE IDF THAT IS, THE BORDER AREA.
THIRD “LOCAL FORCES” ARE IN CONFLICT WITH LEBANESE SOVEREIGNTY AND SYRIA DOES NOT APPROVE OF THEM. (COMMENT: KHADDAM CONSISTENTLY USED THE PHRASE, ” LOCAL FORCES, ” NEVER ONCE REFERRING TO LAHAD.)
FOURTH, ILMAC IS STILL LEGALLY IN EXISTENCE, AND IT INCLUDES MILITARY REPRESENTATIVES WHO COULD MEET AND DISCUSS SECURITY ARRANGEMENTS.
IN RESPONSE, MURPHY ARGUED THAT THE PROBLEM AS HE SEES IT IN ACHIEVING FULL IDF WITHDRAWAL IS THAT IN THE PERIOD AHEAD THE LAF WILL NOT BE ABLE TO DO THE JOB OF REPLACING ISRAELI FORCES IN THE WHOLE AREA TO BE VACATED. UN FORCES OPERATE AS PEACEKEEPING, NOT PEACEMAKING FORCES. IT IS A PRACTICAL PROBLEM — CAN WE WAIT THROUGH THE INDETERMINATE PERIOD NECESSARY FOR THE LAF TO PREPARE ITSELF?
HOW LONG WILL THAT TAKE? LOCAL FORCES ARE NO ONES FIRST CHOICE; THE LAF IS THE FIRST CHOICE, BUT NOT A REAL ONE . LOCAL FORCES ARE TRANSITIONAL INSTRUMENTS UNTIL THE CENTRAL GOVERNMENT CAN EXERT ITS AUTHORITY DOWN TO THE BORDER. THEY ARE A REALITY IN THE SOUTH TODAY.
KHADDAM INTERJECTED THAT HE DIDN’T SHARE MURPHYS VIEWS ON THE LAF , IT IS TRUE THAT VARIOUS BRIGADES HAD COLLAPSED , BUT AFTER THE FORMATION OF THE GOVERNMENT OF NATIONAK UNITY (GNU), THERE WAS AGREEMENT ON A NUMBER OF STEPS TO UNIFY THE LAF.
ALL PARTIES IN THE GNU ARE AGREED IN IMPLEMENTING THIS UNDERSTANDING ON THE LAF , IN ORDER TO REMOVE THE ISRAELI PRETEXT OF OCCUPYING THE SOUTH IN DEFEASE OF NORTHERN ISRAELIS SECURITY. THE GOL IS CAPABLE OF PROVIDING THAT SECURITY,EVERYONE IN LEBANON IS CONVINCED OF THE LAF”S ABILITY TO CARRY OUT IT“S DUTIES IN THE SOUTH .
THE LAF BRIGADES, KHADDAM AVERRED, WHICH DID NOT COLLAPSE IN THE WAR ARE CAPABLE OF CARRYING OUT THESE DUTIES. MURPHY DISAGREED WITH KHADDAM, ADDING THERE IS ZERO CONFIDENCE AMONG ISRAELIS IN THE LAF. IN UN FORCES HAVE NOT BEEN CALLED UPON TO MOVE FROM THEIR ENCLAVES SINCE 1982.
IN RESPONSE TO KHADDAM’ S FOURTH POINT CONCERNING ILMAC, MURPHY SAID THERE IS NO CHANGE IN THE ISRAELI ATTITUDE ON ILMAC IT IS A DEAD ISSUE,HE SUGGESTED THAT THERE MAY BE OTHER WAYS TO BRING MILITARY REPRESENTATIVES TOGETHER , AND EMPHASIZED TO KIADDAM THE ENCOURAGING ATTITUDE IN THE PERES GOVERNMENT THAT THE EARLIER REQUIREMENT FOR POLITICAL-LEVEL TALKS HAS BEEN DROPPED . THIS IS A BIG CONCESSION, BUT ISRAEL CANNOT BE EXPECTED TO GIVE MORE BY AGREEING TO USE ILMAC, MURPHY STRESSED THAT PERES WANTS TO DO SOMETHING PRACTICAL IN ORDER TO START THINGS MOVING.
KHADDAM REPLIED THAT HE IS NOT DISCUSSING. DETAILS BECAUSE THIS DICUSSION MUST BE WITH THE GOL WHICH HAS ITS RESPONIBALITIES TO BEAR , HOW EVER IF THE AIM IS TO CARRY OUT DISCUSSION THEN THERE IS A FRAMWORK IN EXISTANCE , WHY SHOULD BE PUT ASIDE ? THERE IS NO LEGAL JUSTIFICATION FOR PUTTING IT ASIDE BECAUSE THE 1982 INVASION, IN ISRAEL’S WORDS, WAS NOT A WAR, IN ANY EVENT, THIS IS A LEBANESE RESPONSIBALITY SYRIA MENTIONED THIS AS A SUITABLE FRAMEWORK FOR MILITARY OFFICERS TO SIT AND TALK. EVERYONE AGREES UN FORCES SHOULD HAVE A ROLE.
MURPHY POINTED OUT THAT ISRAEL CONSIDERS ILMAC TO HAVE BECOME DEFUNCT IN 1967. HE ASKED IF HE WAS CORRECT IN HEARING KHADDAM MENTION THE INVOLVEMENT OF UN FORCES AS A CONCEIVABLE MECHANISM INVOLVING THE UN IN DIRECT IDF/LAF TALKS?
KHADOAM CLARIFIED THAT WHAT HE MEANT TO SAY WAS THAT IF THE LAF HAS NOT REGAINED ITS FULL STRENGTH AND CAPABILITIES, THEN THE UN CAN HELP IT CARRY OUT ITS RESPONSIBILITIES. ANY GAP WOULD BE FILLED BY THE UN.
MURPHY URGED KHADDAM TO CONSIDER OTHER MEANS TO BRING THE TWO MILITARY SIDES TOGETHER, REALIZING THAT FOR THE ISRAELIS, ILMAC IS A DEAD ISSUE, FOR EXAMPLE, COULD A UNSYG REPRISENTATIVES MEET WITH BOTH SIDES? WHAT ABOUT THE REPRESENTATIVE OF ANOTHER NATION MEETING WITH THEM? MURPHY POINTED OUT THAT HE HAD NOT DISCUSSED ANY OF THESE IDEAS IN ISRAEL,WASHINGTON ,OR NEW YORK, SO THEY SHOULD BE CONSIDERED SIMPLY AS IDEAS. HE STRESSED THE NEED TO START THE PROCESS WHICH WOULD ALLOW THE LAF, UNIFIL AND LOCAL FORCES TO PLAY A ROLE UNTIL CONFIDENCE IS BUILT.
KHADDAM RETURNED TO HIS ORIGINAL POSITION, STATING THAT LEBANON DID NOT ENTER INTO THE WAR IN 1967 , AND THUS THERE IS NO JUSTIFICATION FOR THE ISRAELIS TO CONSIDER ILMAC DEAD. SYRIA PROPOSED THIS AS A FRAMEWORK TO ARRIVE AT SECURITY ARRANGEMENTS. SYRIA HAD NOT DISCUSSED THE DETAILS WITH THE GOL ,KHADDAM SAID IT IS A CONVENIENT COVER
MURPHY ASKED IF THIS POINT SHOULD BE DISCUSSED DIRECTLY AND INDEPENDETLY WITH THE GOL
KHADDAM RESPONDED THAT YOU CAN DISCUSS ANYTHING YOU WANT WITH THE GOL BUT SYRIA’S VIEW IS THAT ILMAC PROVIDE THE APPROPRIATE FRAME WORK . ACCORDINGLY, SARG HAS DISCUSSED ILMAC WITH LEBANESE LEADERS ALTHOUGH NOT IN DETAIL. AFTER STUDYING THE ENTIRE MATTER, SYRIA FOUND THAT “THE ONLY REALISTIC CHOICE WAS ILMAC.”
MURPHY ASKED KHADDAM WHAT THE “GOL IS REQUESTING FROM THE UN ON UNIFIL IN MILITARY TERMS.
KHADDAM REPLIED THAT IT SHOULD PREVENT INFILTRATION ON BOTH SIDES OF THE BORDER. HE SAID SUCH RESPONSIBILITIES CAN BE DISCUSSED IN LIGHT OF NEEDS AND OF SECURITY COUNCIL PROCEDURES. THESE ARE TECHNICAL MATTERS FOR THE UN.
MURPHY CONCLUDED BY SAYING THAT IT WAS APPARENT, THAT THERE WAS DISAGREEMENT FOR THE MOMENT ON MILITARY TALKS IN OTHER THAN THE ILMAC FRAMEWORK.
THE U.S. WILL CONSIDER THIS FURTHER AND WOULD WELCOME SYRIA’S IDEAS. HE REPEATED HIS BELIEF THAT IT IS IMPORTANT THAT WE NOT GET HUNG UP ON FRAMEWORKS WHEN THE SUBSTANCE IS A SHARED GOAL OF GETTING ISRAELI FORCES OUT OF LEBANON . MURPHY SAID HE WILL DEPART DAMASCUS TOMORROW (SEPT 28) , BRIEF THE SECRETARY ON SUNDAY , AND PARTICIPATE IN THE SECRETARY’S MEETINGS WITH SHARA’ ON OCT 5. PERES AND SHAMIR WILL VISIT WASHINGTON ON OCT 8-9. MURPHY TOLD KHADDAM THAT WE WOULD BE IN TOUCH AFTER THE PRESIDENT AND THE SECRETARY HAVE CONSIDERED THE MATTER. IT IS CLEAR THERE ARE THINGS TO BE DONE, BUT WE ARE NOT SURE THAT THE U. S. THE ONE TO DO THEM. MURPHY SAID HE COULD RETURN TO DAMASCUS BETWEEN THE PERES VISIT AND A TRIP TO SOUTH ASIA LATER IN OCTOBER
KHADDAM SAID FINE AND ASK MURPHY TO CONVEY HIS BEST REGARDS TO SECRETERY SHULTZ
AFTER MEETING MURPHY STAYED BEHIND FOR A PRIVATE DISCUSSION WITH KHADDAM (OTHER ELEMENTS REPORTED BY ANOTHER CHANNEL . ) MURPHY POINTED OUT THAT THE U. S. HAD ALREADY BEEN BURNED BADLY IN LEBANON, AND HE WANTED TO ASK KHADDAM FRANKLY, IS THERE SOMETHING TO BE DONE BY US HERE? KHADDAM REPLIED, “IN OUR VIEW, YOU CAN DO USEFUL THINGS.” WE ALL WANT A WITHDRAWAL, SYRIA HAS A MAJOR INTEREST IN ISRAELI WITHDRAWAL , AS DOES LEBANON. THE INTERNAL SITUATION IN ISRAEL IS WORSENING AND THE NATIONAL RESISTANCE IN LEBANON IS GROWING, KHADDAM ADDED THAT THE CONTINUATION Of THE LEBANESE SITUATION WORKS AGAINST LEBANON’S INTERESTS AND AGAINST SYRIA’S EFFORT TO PROMOTE A STABLE LEBANON. “MURPHY ASKED AGAIN IF IT WERE POSSIBLE FOR THE U.S. TO PLAY A ROLE . THE REPLY WAS, “PERES IS COMING TO THE U. S. YOUR PRESIDENT CAN THEN DECIDE ON THE U. S. ROLE.” SYRIA AND LEBANON WANT TO SEE LEBANON’S SOVEREIGNTY AND INDEPENDENCE RESTORED. KHADDAM REMINDED MURPHY THAT ASSAD TOLD THE GOL IT WOULD BE ACCEPTABLE FOR THE GOL TO ASK THE U. S, TO PLAY A ROLE. “WHEN THE U. S. REFUSED, THAT IS WHEN THE GO L RESORTED TO THE UN.”
MURPHY TRIED AGAIN ON DIRECT MILITARY TALKS, KHADDAM REPLIED THAT THE LEBANESE HAVE A FORCE AVAILABLE TO MOVE SOUTH AND THAT ALL PARTIES IN LEBANON AGREE ON A LAF ROLE. IN RESPONSE TO MURPHY’S STATEMENT THAT ISRAEL DID NOT CONSIDER THE LAF IN ANY WAY UP TO THE TASK, KHADDAM SAID, “IF THE IDF WERE TO WITHDRAW NOW, THE LOCAL FORCES YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT WOULD NOT LAST ONE HOUR . AND WOULD MEET A FATE WORSE THAN THE LEBANISE FORCES (CHRISTIAN MILITIA) IN THE SHUF . ” WERE THE GOL TO ACCEPT LOCAL FORCES , OTHER MILITIA IN OTHER AREAS WOULD BE ENCOURAGED AND THIS WOULD BE WORK DIRECTLY AGAINST THE UNITY OF LEBANON , KHADDAM SAID THAT SYRIA HAS NO OTHER CONCEPT THAN ILMAC. IN OUR DISCUSSIONS, THIS IS WHAT WE CAME UP WITH. MURPHY ASKED ABOUT OTHER IDEAS . KHADDAM SAID ANYTHING THE U.S. CARES TO PUT FORWARD CAN BE DISCUSSED.
DURING THE PRIVATE MEETING BETWEEN KHADDAM AND MURPHY. REMAINDER OF PARTY WAITED IN THE ANTEROOM. SITTING WITH THEM WAS LEBANESE UNOFFICIAL EMISSARY MICHEL SAMAHA. WHO PROBABLY WAS WAITING FOR KHADDAM TO PROVIDE HIM WITH THE APPROPRIATE MESSAGE TO CARRY TO LEBANESE PRESIDENT GEMAYEL. SAMAHA SAID HE PLANNED TO RETURN TO BEIRUT THAT NIGHT. GLASPIE